2-7 Triple Draw Strategic Play

By Chris “DeathDonkey” Vitch

Once you are familiar with the basics of 2-7 triple draw lowball (TDL), you will almost certainly fall into one of two extremes, both of which have their faults and are exploitable.  Many new TDL players tend to always try and make the nuts, or as close to the nuts as they can get.  I will call these players “weak tight” though that description is taken from a limit hold’em mentality and loosely applied here.  On the other end of the spectrum, we have the type of player who tries to get pat as fast as possible and hope his opponent doesn’t draw out.  This player is “loose passive” though again the description doesn’t entirely do him justice.

A “weak tight” TDL player will often start out running well and frequently making great hands when learning the game.  Then, when he cools off and runs more normally, he will think he is unlucky, and will think his opponents who frequently show down tens and jacks and scoop pot after pot are terrible players who don’t understand the game.  Unless he plays in extremely loose games, this type of player will not win, and even worse, he won’t understand why he doesn’t win!

If you suspect your opponent is of the weak tight variety, the simple adjustment you need to make is to snow (the proper TDL term for standing pat with an awful hand, hoping to bluff your opponent out of the pot) more frequently, and be more inclined to draw less cards at the expense of drawing more rough (to weaker hands than normal).  Here is an example hand I might play against a weak tight opponent:

I open raise on the button with 249KK and the BB defends.  He draws two and I toss my kings and draw two as well.  Notice a few things right off the bat:  I have an extremely marginal stealing hand, and against solid blinds it might be better to just fold it pre-draw and wait for a better hand, but I believe I can play the hand profitably against a weak tight big blind.  Also, if I decide to steal with this hand and the BB is someone I respect or even a total LAG, I would toss the 9 as well and draw three cards, even if he drew two, hoping my position will overcome my starting hand deficiency.

Now I catch an Ace and an 8, for 249A8.  He checks, I bet my “improved” hand and he calls.  Now he will usually draw two again, which I already expect because he simply checked and called my bet, a sign he did not improve.  Also, remember that because he is a weak tight player, he will frequently fail to improve because he defines an improvement to his hand quite stringently and might consider catching a 9T “two bricks”.

Assuming he does draw two again, I will toss my Ace and draw one.  Perhaps now I catch a ten or a jack and make J9842, a weak hand to be sure!  But also realize this is a situation where I might play a caught pair the same way, turning my hand into a snow for the final two betting rounds and one drawing round.  My opponent will check and call again if he is not pat (and sometimes when he is, allowing me to change plans and toss however many cards I think I need to to have a crack at the pot!)  Now he draws one on the final draw and I stand pat with my marginal pat hand that is a favorite over his draw.  He bricks and checks to me, I check behind and take down the pot, or he catches a great card and bets and I fold, or he catches an ok card that beats me and checks and I check behind and lose.  Notice in all these cases I have complete control over the size of the pot, but he will be punished those times I did have a truly strong hand and raise his bet, or value bet him in this situation.  Also recall what I said about turning my hand into a snow in this situation – had I done that, I will now simply bluff bet on the end and expect him to fold his missed draw every time after checking to me, and when he does call I expect to see a solid hand that he was too weak tight to value bet.

When you have similar hands like this one occur over and over, you will win way more than your fair share of pots, and your weak tight opponent will think you are a lucky fish, when in reality he will never beat you over the long-term with his current strategy.  In a live game, he will show you the strong draw he missed with on the end (maybe 2357x) and bitterly complain about his bad luck, and you will agree that he is quite unlucky as you stack the chips.

Now let’s talk about the “loose passive” opponent who plays like I did in the above hand, but does it all the time without regard for his opponents’ tendencies.  This type of opponent is somewhat more difficult to beat than the weak tight one, because you will be forced to showdown the best hand to beat him and sometimes you can’t seem to make one no matter what you do.  That said, over the long-term you will make plenty of decent hands that are much better than the average hand the loose passive player is taking to showdown, and as long as you remember to adjust your value bets and raises to weaker hands, you will milk him dry.  The adjustment you need to make to beat the loose passive player is to value bet and raise a wider range of hands than normal.

The loose passive player got that way by running well when learning the game, but trying a strategy of getting pat hands quickly and having them hold up, and it worked!  More often than normal, his opponents bricked off and he won with some truly weak hands, and realized that he doesn’t need a great hand to win, just better than his opponent.  Once he cools off and runs more normally, his opponents will come from behind and outdraw him quite frequently, and the loose passive player will think he is quite unlucky to be repeatedly outdrawn by his “nut-peddling” opponents.  Here is a hand I might play against a loose passive opponent:

He raises in early position and I re-raise on the button with 234KK, he calls and draws one and I toss my kings and draw two.  Notice already that he cannot have a premium hand because he would cap it before the draw – there is no value in deception here since I will immediately see he only needs one card so if he had a great starting hand he would surely cap it.  He will, however, lead into me after the draw regardless of what he catches since he is a card ahead.  An opponent who draws one and then fails to lead into my two-draw here is even worse than a standard loose passive one and will quickly go broke.

I catch something like QQ, total bricks, and he leads into me and I peel.  He stands pat right away and I draw two again.  This time I catch J6 and again call his bet since I have improved.  Notice that with this particular catch against some opponents I might raise and hope they break, but the loose passive player will never release his pat hand, so I can only play to extract maximum value from him.  Therefore the correct play is to toss my jack and draw at my 2346.

On the final draw I make a 7 or an 8 and raise his bet, or a 9 or T and call his bet, expecting to frequently win against a rough hand that he decided to bet on the end (perhaps feeling glad when his opponent folds and he doesn’t even have to show down his hand) and bet all of them for value when he checks to me (the Ten-low is close and probably opponent-specific).  And sure, I often miss on the end and he wins the pot, but when I do hit, as long as I remember to extract the maximum from him, I will do better than my fair share and he will pay me off over and over all the while complaining about the chaser who ran his made hand down again.

One final thought on both of the types of TDL fish I have mentioned in this article:  given two students, one of each type, I would much prefer to have the loose passive one and expect to turn him into a solid player much faster than the weak tight one.  That’s because the loose passive player has realized one important concept from TDL – your hand only needs to be better than your opponent’s, it doesn’t have to be the nuts.  The loose passive player just overuses this concept and doesn’t adjust his strategy for his opponents.  Luckily for us, the weak tight player is the more prevalent of the two (especially in B&M!).

These (this and one more) articles need to be editing severely but some might be interested in my thoughts on triple draw. This first article is very introductory but the second has some solid strategy in it I believe:

Introduction to 2-7 Triple Draw Lowball

By Chris “DeathDonkey” Vitch

2-7 triple draw lowball (TDL) is a relatively new form of poker, and can often only be found in B&M card rooms during high stakes mix games.  It is more readily available online at UltimateBet, B2B, GamesGrid, and most recently, Pokerstars.  In this article, I would like to introduce you to the game, and give you some basic strategy tips that will help you become a winning TDL player.

TDL has the same structure as Texas Hold’em, with a small blind, big blind, and button, and can only be played six handed or fewer (a game with more than six players results in running out of cards frequently and needing to reshuffle the discards during the hand).  Like the traditional form of poker, 5-card draw, in TDL you are initially dealt five cards, have a round of betting, and then have the opportunity to discard and replace as many cards as you wish.  There is then another betting round, and this is repeated twice more for a total of three drawing rounds and four betting rounds.  At the showdown, the best hand is the one that is lowest – note that aces are high only, and straights and flushes are to be avoided, as they count as straights or flushes and not simply lows (e.g. 65432 is not a six-low, it is a six-high straight).  Therefore, the best possible TDL hand is 75432, which is where the name 2-7 comes from.  Note that when I write a hand, I put the cards in order from highest to lowest, which is how the are compared at showdown (e.g. 87652 beats 87653 by one notch).

The first piece of strategy advice I can offer is to read the TDL section of Super System 2 by Daniel Negreanu.  He outlines the basic math behind the game, as well as some solid starting hand requirements.  Here you will learn an important concept that will occur over and over again – when to draw one and when to stand pat on the final drawing round.  You will learn that it is almost always correct to stand pat with a jack-low against an opponent drawing one on the end, but you should break a queen-low and draw one as well.  Against two opponents both drawing one, you will want to stand pat with a nine-low but break your ten.

Another basic concept in TDL is to always bet when you are a card ahead of your opponent(s).  For example, after the first or second draw if you drew two cards and your opponent drew three, bet regardless of what you catch.  Your opponent does not know whether you caught well or poorly and if he caught poorly he will often fold, making your cards insignificant.  Even if he does continue, being a card ahead will almost always make you a favorite to win the hand so you are simply value betting.

A common situation you will find yourself in is when both you and your single opponent have drawn one (or sometimes two) cards on the last draw and you have to decide how to handle the final betting round.  This is a situation that is entirely dependent on your opponent – if he will frequently bet in this spot both for value and as a bluff, you should tend to check and call with many more hands than you would call down with had your opponent been pat on an earlier drawing round, perhaps calling with a pair of threes or better.  On the other hand, if your opponent tends to play too passively on the end, rarely bluffing or value betting marginal hands, but he will call you with a wide range of hands (fearing you are bluffing him), then you should value bet your great and decent hands, perhaps all nine-lows or better.  You should also check and fold your mediocre hands, such as a jack or queen-low, since your opponent will only bet with better hands than these once you check.  Finally, you should bluff liberally with your worst hands (ones that are least likely to win a showdown if he checks behind) – hands like a pair of fours or worse and especially rivered straights.  Note that this type of opponent is the one most likely to be found in the low limit online game, while the first type are in abundance in the higher stakes games.

Use the basic strategies I have mentioned above and you will find yourself able to compete in most low limit TDL games online.  One important aspect that cannot be avoided by reading about the game is the experience you will quickly gain by playing it for yourself.  There are many common situations you will frequently find yourself in and once you are comfortable handling them you can focus on more advanced strategies.  Best of luck as you begin to learn to play this interesting and entertaining poker variant!

No Triple Draw going when I woke up this morning, so I've been playing holdem.

UTG opens, relatively new player 3bets, I cap from the BB with qq.  Flop is 1043.  I bet, UTG, raises, new player 3bets, I get just call, UTG caps.  Turn Ace.  I check, two bets back to me, i muck.  UTG has k10, new player has j4  Whoops.

At another table I threebet AA from the button, BB calls, raiser calls.  Flop 1092.  I bet, both call.  Turn 8.  I bet, BB raises, raiser 3bets, I fold.  raiser has qt, BB has 92.

I don't fold big pairs very much, so it's pretty ironic that both folds in a 5 minute span were probably incorrect, since the pot was large and I had a lot of outs with AA.

I've been seeing a lot of this play by people.  It's like people think "oh I forget to bet, so I better raise now."
groth911t posts the small blind of $15.
goldbyer posts the big blind of $30.

groth911t: 8s Qc
goldbyer: — –
FuzhouBaby: — –

Pre-flop:

FuzhouBaby folds. groth911t raises to $60. goldbyer
re-raises to $90. groth911t calls.

Flop (board: 5h Jc 3s):

groth911t checks. goldbyer checks.

Turn (board: 5h Jc 3s 6c):

groth911t bets $60. goldbyer calls.

River (board: 5h Jc 3s 6c Js):

groth911t bets $60. goldbyer raises to $120.
groth911t re-raises to $180. goldbyer folds.
groth911t is returned $60 (uncalled).

Playing some 80/160 TD, at the moment, had a stud and a razz table going before that, and before that i had two tables of o8 and lhe going.  Why I was playing 30/60 Stud and 30/60 Razz, I can't really say.

One interesting stud hand:

I bring in with (qq)3, five players fold, ace (who has been jamming every pair) completes, j calls.

Fourth street: player a: xxa2; player b xxj4; me: (qq)3q

A leads out, B calls, I raise, A 3bets, B  folds, I cap.

A has been playing big pairs crazy, so I decide I'm just gonna lose a lot of bets if I'm beat.  He catches 7, I catch 4.  He checks, I bet, he raises, I 3bet, he caps.  Then he catches 5, I catch 5, he c/r and calls my 3bet.  He c/r the river again, and shows aces and 7s.  I've played almost no stud, and don't know if I put in too few bets or way too many, but I was prett shocked to be good once he c/r the river after all that action.

So, after posting a couple successful bluffs, time to post a hand where I get owned:

I decide to snow with 2255x, raise, sam grizzle calls, i draw 1, he draws 2.  I bet out, he raises, I threebet, he calls.  We both go pat, he stays pat on next draw, calls both my last two bets (I didn't think he had much and kept up my snow).  he calls, and wins with 987.  Just a great call by Sam.

The badugi hand from 2+2: Miami John had a 973a, and the CO had 972a.  When Miami John called after I muck, the CO said "I like your hand."  So, basically, he thought he was bluffing in a spot where I thought a bluff would never work.  As such, even though I  mucked the winner in a big pot, I feel ok about it.  I've played a lot of triple draw, and in my experience you'll never get two people to fold pat hands laying them 16-1.  I would feel much worse about the laydown if he thought he was valuebetting, because I put him on a valuebet and his range for VB there just has to have me killed I think.  I guess I will have to write off the posibility of a bluff less in the future.
Today I started playing 80/160 TD online again.  After my last 30/60 HE experience, I decided TD may not be more variance after all.  The last hand of holdem I played went something like this:

UTG raises, LP 3bets, I cap on the button with 99 (Both players were very LAG).  This cap was probably too loose anyway, and I got what I deserved I suppose:

Flop comes q96, me and LP put in four bets, UTG calls them all.  turn card 8, UTG leads out, i raise, he 3bets, LP folds, I call.  river is a blank, he leads out and scoops a big pot with 57s.

So after this I put some money back on UB and started playing TD.  Nice to be back at it.  Hopefully I can split time fairly evenly between TD, LHE and the 8b games for a while.

27 TD HU v. Mike Ross. I raise drawing 234, he calls, each draw 2. I catch 28, lead out, he calls, each draw 1. I c/c on the next street. He pats behind me me. I catch (2348)4 and lead out. He folds.
TD again: I raise 235 from the CO, the SB 3bets, BB 4bets. SB draws 2, BB draws 1, I draw 2. I hit 86532. SB checks, BB bets, I raise, SB calls, BB 3bets. I had played with this player before, and he had been fairly passive with 8s, so I just call. 1, pat, pat. SB checks, BB bets, i call, SB raises. BB folds (whoops! guess my non-raise was bad), I decide to make the crying calldown, SB bets out I call he shows down 87432. This hand played out very atypical from what I've seen from live triple draw, where things generally play out WAY more passive than online games.

Omaha Hilo: I open from the CO with a3s8x. Get 3bet by button, one other player calls. Flop is j92. Checks to button, who bets. This is basically 100% fold for me, but I think I was flagging down a masseuse or cocktail waitress, and called. turn is (j92)9. I check, button bets, bb folds, I decide to take this pot and raise. Button thinks for a minute, calls. I bet out the river, he mucks KK.

I'll see if there were any other hands worth posting, otherwise I'll post the results of my 2+2 hand later on.

Made it out to Vegas for the weekend, only played one real long session of 200/400 Badugi/Omaha 8b/27 Triple Draw/Stud 8b, and one short session of 100/200. The 100/200 game seemed pretty awful, except for one player who called everything but busted quickly. I had slept 3 hours in 3 days thanks to my long BOTE session, took a couple beats, started to play badly, and left a small loser fairly quickly. The BOTE session, on the other hand, went very well.

When I sat in the BOTE game the lineup was David Sklansky, Sam Grizzle, and four other players, three of whom I'd played with on the previous trip two weeks ago. Over the course of my 15 hour session, Miami John, Mark Gregorich, Mike Ross, and several others wound up sitting, including one maniac who just autobet everything for the first two streets in badugi and td, no matter how many he drew. He almost always stood pat, and did well (though he ran ungodly hot in badugi). I'm trying to decide if there's something to that style of play, because building large pots is a good thing if you're gonna take down a lot of them, which I think can be done. I gradually dwindled downward til the maniac sat down, won a bunch of pots to get ahead while he played, then proceeded to do well the rest of the night. Some hands:

Badugi:

The first two hands were hands played by one of my opponents who definately knows both this game, and general poker theory much better than I do, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing:

First hand the player is pat after the first draw, I'm drawing one at a35 acting last, with the sb also drawing one. On second draw, it checks to the player, he bets, i call, sb calls. SB now stands pat, player stands pat behind, I draw 1. I catch (a35)9, and it checks to me. I think my hand is, i think, good here often (it looks a lot like both players have hands in the 9-j range here) and i decide to bet, though I think it's definately a close call. The SB just calls with a 7, and then the player just calls with a 6! I guess he wants to get a bet from both of us, which most likely happens if i bet and the other player calls. But, he almost certainly gets a bet from the SB if he bets, and I think if he checks, a raise seems entirely in order. Maybe he thinks we'll both likely to fold if beat, but raise if ahead. Nonetheless, it seems to me that there are lots of hands i and the sb can call with that are behind (though I fold the 9 if the player raises).

The other hand same player is drawing one from the getgo with A23. Another loose player who likes to snow (not the maniac) draws 3 from the sb in a three handed pot. The loose player calls this player's bet, draws 3 again, the third player also calls. After second draw, the loose player raises, the third player folded, and the player with a23 calls. The loose player stands pat and leads out, the other player catches a q, for a23q, and calls. The loose player instamucks when called. The other player says he folds if he doesn't improve. I'm very mystified because the range of hands that a23q beats that a23 beats is very very small (just a worst q or a k badugi).

Here's a hand I played in badugi: Badugi hand

I definitely have a lot to learn about badugi. I'm also resolved, despite my win in the game, to improve my omaha and stud hilo games, which I think I'll play a lot of online for a while. I'll post a couple more hands in the next post.